Zeus complains in Book I of the Odyssey:
Ah how shameless--the way these mortals blame the gods.
From us alone, they say, come all their miseries, yes,
but they themselves, with their own reckless ways,
compound their pains beyond their proper share (1.37-40).
What is Zeus saying? Is he right? Whose fault is it anyway that Odysseus has been wandering for ten years -- that the suitors are eating him out of house and home? From what we know of the story so far (think of the story of Agamemnon, Ajax, Menelaus and Nestor as well as Odysseus), are the gods to blame for our suffering and successes-- or are we?
Zeus is trying to say that humans have no right to blame any god for the losses or casualties of the Trojan War. Zeus justified his point by saying “Hermes warned, with all the good will in the world…” Hermes, the giant-killer, warned Aegisthus not to steal Atride’s wife, Helen. However, Aegisthus did it anyways and caused the Trojan War. The Gods at one point have helped to prevent this war, but it still happened due to human cause. The Trojan War lasted for ten years and caused great losses, including Odysseus not being able to go home. After all, the Gods never intervened to cause the war, they only attempted to prevent it, and thus the Gods have no responsibility in finding Odysseus who joined the human caused war. If someone has to be blamed for the containment of Odysseus and the events happening at his homeland, it would be humans themselves. The only situation where humans can blame Gods is when Gods actually caused the situation, which is not the case of the Odysseus. Humans chose to start a war regardless of the Gods’ warning, this means that they should take all responsibility of the wars. Blaming or begging the Gods is simply irresponsible and intolerable.
ReplyDeleteZeus is saying that people are as much to blame for their lives as the gods are. Yes, the gods have the power to intervene, but as evidenced by the story, they usually do not. Telemachus’ situation is a prime example. When suitors are coming after his mother, Penelope, all Telemachus does is complain. He doesn’t have the strength to do anything about the large numbers of men eating all his food and loitering in his house. It is his fault that he cannot muster enough courage to own his house and tell the suitors to leave. He also does not exhibit enough strength to leave and search for his father on his own accord and he blames the gods for his weaknesses. Ajax’s return is another example. After he survives the great storm, he boasts and brags about how he is the chosen one and how special he is that the gods allowed him to survive. Of course, this was not the case. Since Ajax acted impiously, Poseidon killed him. The point is that Ajax brought his destiny on himself. Though the gods carried it out, he is blame for provoking Poseidon and should have known what happened to him. On Odysseus’ journey home, he is almost killed by Poseidon. Though Athena saved him, Poseidon’s wave is still provoked. When Odysseus and his men were stuck on an island with Cyclopes, Odysseus blinds the cyclops Polyphemus. Unbeknownst to him, Polyphemus is the son of Poseidon. So when Poseidon sees Odysseus trying to get home, he sends up a wave in order to kill him. So yes, Zeus is correct in saying that people are partly to blame for their own destinies.
ReplyDeleteZeus is saying that the humans always blame the gods for their problems. He thinks that they cause their own problems. He is wrong, but also right at the same time. Humans cause many of their problems. Humans are very selfish and greedy and they do very many bad things. However, the gods also cause many problems in these stories. It is the gods’ fault that Odysseus is still at sea. More specifically, Poseidon has been preventing Odysseus from returning home. He is angry at Odysseus for blinding his son, Polyphemus, so he trapped him on Calypso’s island. Then, when Odysseus was freed, he started a storm that made Odysseus lose his raft. Most of the things that happen to the mortals in the myths are caused by the gods. The whole Trojan War was fought over which goddess was the prettiest. When Menelaus was returning home, his fleet was blown off course to Egypt by the gods, and he had to capture Proteus to find out how to return home. Ajax was killed on his journey home for his impiety. However, the gods have also caused good things to happen. Nestor and his army returned home safely for his piety. However, the gods don’t cause everything. While Agamemnon was at war, his wife, Clytemnestra, was cheating on him with Aegisthus. When he returned home, his wife and Aegisthus killed him. Then, his son Orestes avenged his death by killing Aegisthus and Clytemnestra. This was not the gods’ doing, it was mortals’. Overall I believe that the gods are to blame for most of what is happening, however, I am not saying that mortals are not to blame either.
ReplyDeleteZeus thinks that humans make their own mistakes but they don’t take responsibility and instead blame the gods. He is right in some aspects of his claim because humans do make mistakes, but most of the time the gods cause those mistakes in the first place. They are constantly struggling to be better than each other and pull humans into their arguments. An example of this would be the beauty contest between Athena, Hera, and Aphrodite which starts the Trojan War. The war, in turn, produces all of the problems of returning home for Nestor, Ajax, Agamemnon, Telemachus, and Odysseus. The problem of the suitors overtaking Telemachus’s home would also not exist if not for the war. The gods also have a part in the delay of Odysseus’s journey home. Poseidon’s anger and want for revenge at Odysseus is the main cause of his problem because he causes disasters in attempt to stop his return. Calypso, the goddess on Ogygia, has fallen in love with Odysseus and is likely keeping him there against his will. Odysseus wouldn’t have returned home unless he had the rest of the gods backing him up against Poseidon. Zeus himself questions Poseidon’s plan to sabotage of Odysseus’s journey home by saying, “How can he stand his ground against the will of all the gods at once—one god alone?” (1.94-95). This shows that the return of Odysseus only happens because the gods want it to, not because Odysseus himself. Although the gods are largely responsible for problems of the humans, many of them take pity and try to help. Such is a case for Athena’s guidance to Telemachus in search for his father, Odysseus. Telemachus doesn’t really have the courage to search for his father until the gods influence him. Although the humans do have faults and make mistakes, Zeus conveniently places all of the blame on them. The gods start many of the problems of the characters in The Odyssey but they also control a large aspect of their lives.
ReplyDeleteZeus is saying that he acknowledges the fact that the gods bring mortals some unhappiness, but also states that mortals, through their own actions, increase and prolong their pain. This has shown to be true, as Odysseus has been shown to neither honor the gods a lot or act impiously so far. As a result the gods eventually help Odysseus leave Ogygia, but only after many years of being stranded far from Ithaca. Therefore, it is partially Odysseus's fault for being marooned for so long, although some blame must lie with Zeus for summoning the initial storms that drove Odysseus off course. If we look at others' stories, we can see that the more one honors the gods, the more favor they receive from the gods and vice versa. This is shown by Ajax's and Nestor's journeys back to their homes. When Ajax was journeying back to his home, Poseidon summoned violent waters to drive Ajax to a cliff, but then protected him from the waves. However, Ajax boasted that he escaped in spite of the gods' fury from his own ability, rather than Poseidon's will. This is shown by his quote, "'In the teeth of the gods,' he bragged. 'I have escaped the ocean's sheer abyss!'" (4.565-6 ) Poseidon then became furious and quickly smote Ajax. However, Nestor fares better. When Zeus raged and opposed the Achaeans' journey home, Nestor's group "sacrificed to the gods." (3.176) While Zeus did not immediately stop harassing Nestor, he eventually moves to hinder Menelaus's progress. Nestor sacrifices again, this time to Poseidon, once he reaches a stopping point, and has a smooth journey from then on, blessed with a strong wind. From all this evidence, we can conclude that the gods create our sufferings, as they did with all these heroes, but that humans can reduce the amount they suffer by honoring the gods or increase the amount they suffer by disrespecting them.
ReplyDeleteZeus is stating that not every wrong doing is the gods fault. He later states that the Trojan War was not the gods fault. Instead the gods tried to prevent the war by telling Aegithus not to murder Orestes and kidnap his wife. Aegithus does not listen to the gods and continues on to kill Orestes and take his wife which leads to the start of the war. The Trojan War goes on for ten years and results in great losses on both sides. Because the war was caused by mortals, it is not the gods’ fault that Odysseus cannot return home after the war. If the war was never started then all these problems and struggles during and after the war would have never been caused.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus being set off course is both the gods’ and the humans’ fault. Odysseus upset Poseidon which led to Poseidon getting revenge by throwing Odysseus off course and trapping him on Calypso’s island. Odysseus upset Poseidon by blinding his son Polyphemus the cyclops by stabbing him in the eye. It is Odysseus’ fault by upsetting Poseidon, and it was Poseidon’s fault that Odysseus was trapped on the island. Overall, the gods are not to blame for the suffering and success of the mortals. It was the mortals who caused the war and the mortals who fought it. Zeus is right to say that not everything is an effect of the gods. The gods may have intervened a little but never created a huge commotion.
In this passage, Zeus explains that whenever something goes wrong, the mortals blame the gods. He claims that people always have to find a reason for their failure, other than it being their own fault. He also claims that this is not true. While mortals try to blame the gods, it is actually their own personal fault. Zeus claims that their “reckless ways” cause people to fail, not the destiny that the gods set. Often times though, the gods begin an argument and drag the mortals into it. For example, when the goddesses Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite quarrel over who is the most beautiful, the outcome starts the Trojan War. This example is called the Judgment of Paris. Paris, a mortal, is called upon to decide who the most beautiful goddess is. Aphrodite wins the contest and awards Paris with the most beautiful woman in the world, Helen. Helen is “kidnapped” from her kingdom, causing dismay all over Greece. This is the beginning of the ten year Trojan War. In this case, it is the gods’ fault that something has gone wrong. Because the goddesses fought over a small feature of each of them, it caused many soldiers and innocent people to die in Troy. As for Odysseus, he was stranded on Calypso’s island for ten years. While he could have arrived safely at his kingdom quickly and painlessly, Calypso forced him to stay with her to be her husband, causing a copious amount of suitors to court Penelope. Staying on the island makes Odysseus suffer unnecessarily, another fault of the gods. Both the mortals and the gods blame each other for their faults, when really, they are each at fault. When a human makes a mistake and blames the gods, it is their fault, but the gods can also cause much unnecessary suffering.
ReplyDeleteZeus is saying that the mortals blame every bad that thing that happens to them on the gods. This happens several times throughout the book. An example of this can be found on page 89. Telemachus says, “Why, mother, why deny our devoted bard the chance to entertain us any way the spirit stirs him on? Bards are not to blame- Zeus is to blame.” Zeus is also saying that the people are causing these bad things to happen on their own. Zeus is right to a certain extent. The mortals do bad things and anger the gods, but it is the gods who decide whether or not to punish these people for their actions. There are several good examples of this in the book. Odysseus blinds Poseidon’s son, but it is Poseidon who decides to make Odysseus’s journey home long and difficult. Ajax brags about escaping the sea, and Poseidon decides to punish him with death; this can be found on page 140. Menelaus is marooned on an island because he didn’t make a sacrifice to the gods before embarking on his journey home; this can be found in Menelaus’s story in Book 4. Odysseus blinded a god’s son, Ajax was bragging, and Menelaus didn’t honor the gods in the proper way. In all of these cases the people did something wrong, but the gods have the ultimate decision of whether or not to bring misery upon the mortals. This is why I believe that the gods are to blame for our suffering.
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ReplyDeleteWhat Zeus is saying is, this isn’t my fault that your life sucks. You have complete control over your life not me! So in that regard he is right, but also a little wrong. While the gods do have some control, the weather, nature, disaster, ect, they do not control humans. It is humans who chose to start war, and is was also humans that created democracy. But while humans do play a large role in how events turn out. Gods can always play a part. Though if we look at the bigger picture, I think that the gods do play a large role in the humans’ life. While it is the gods fault for Odysseus being gone for 10 years. It is also his fault. Yes the gods did set him off course many times and yes that is their fault, but it could have been avoided if they sacrificed to the gods before they left. Though as of right now, in the story of Odysseus, it is primarily the gods fault for all the bad luck. Whether it is bad winds, the sea is crazy, or some other kind of misfortune, everything leads back to the gods. Why did Odysseus get blown off course, Zeus/ Poseidon, why has Odysseus been trapped with Calypso? Poseidon. Why did Odysseus almost drowned? Because of Poseidon. It seems that it leads to the gods more often than not. But wait, wasn’t it the Odysseus’s fault for not leaving the Island when they plundered the village? Yes, but how many time has it been the humans fault and not because the gods intervened? Point is, while the humans do have their flaws and do make mistakes that lead to Unfortunate outcomes, it is more often the god’s fault. Their tampering with the humans has caused most of the misfortune in the story.
ReplyDeleteZeus is saying that mortals instead of just blaming the Gods, should blame themselves as well for the miseries and troubles in their lives. I think he is right because even though the Gods can interfere in the mortal’s live, such as when Ino helped to rescue Odysseus from Poseidon, the mortals should still be able to take responsibility for their actions. This quote is an example of when people just blame the Gods for anything. Telemachus explains, “Why, mother, why deny our devoted bard the chance to entertain us any way the spirit stirs him on? Bards are not to blame-Zeus is to blame” (89). This quote shows that Telemachus just decided to blame Zeus instead of the bard. I think that Zeus is right that people blame the Gods for a lot of things, but also there are certain cases where the Gods do go to the extreme. When Ajax bragged about not dying when he was pushed into a rock, Poseidon drowned him. I think that in that case Poseidon went a little overboard. Ajax could have just been punished, but instead he died. Though Ajax shouldn’t have been bragging in the first place, he still did not do anything that was death worthy. In the end I think the mortals should learn that they can take care of their own problems and that they should take responsibility for them, but the Gods also should learn to ease up a bit on their harsh punishments.
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ReplyDeleteZeus is claiming that humans control their own destinies. He is saying humans are blaming the gods for all their problems and miseries. This is a big theme in the book because there are many problems between the gods and humans. Zeus says, “Ah how shameless-the way there mortals blame the gods…they themselves, with their own reckless ways, compound their pains beyond their proper share.” (1.37)The gods have clearly impacted the humans and the humans and impacted the gods. The gods do not intervene with the humans as much as the humans say they are. Yes, they have all the power in the world to intervene with the humans but overall they have not. The gods especially Zeus in angered by the humans because they are blaming him and the other gods. He clearly states that while gods do cause their miseries, the humans add on their own problems themselves. A very good example of this is in the Trojan War. Yes the gods were the reason it began, is but they never intervened during the ten long year of war. Because of this war, many people died and many lives were dramatically changed. The gods did have some part in this war, yet humans controlled their destinies of what happened. Another great example of this is the very short story of Ajax. He was sailing home when Poseidon sent a huge wave along with a storm to attempt to sink Ajax and his ship. He crashed into a cliff, but he still survived. Ajax could have just been thankful that he survived, but he did not. He make the huge mistake of bragging to Poseidon. This angered Poseidon and he killed Ajax. Poseidon did cause the storm, which created this whole situation and lead to Ajax’s death. Yet Ajax controlled his own destiny because he made a bad choice by bragging to Poseidon and he survive the waves and storm. One last example is about Aegisthus. He made many mistakes even though he knew it was wrong. Zeus states “Look at Aegisthus now…about and beyond his share he stole Atrides’ wife, he murdered the warlord coming home from Troy though he knew it meant his total ruin.” (1.41) He controls his own destiny in this situation even if the gods intervened the slightest bit. Zeus is right that humans should not blame everything on the gods. They are causing more problems than the gods are. The gods have put them in situations they should not have been in, yet the humans are the ones that made the wrong decision.
ReplyDeleteIn book one of the Odyssey I think Zeus is right about the people blaming all their troubles on the gods. All Zeus is saying, is that mortals have complete control over their lives and the Gods should not be blamed for their own self-caused problems. In book one an example of mortals blaming the Gods for their problems is where Telemachus says, “Who on his own, has ever really known who gave him life? Would to god I’d been the son of a happy man whom old age took in the midst of his possessions! Now think of the most unlucky mortal ever born...”(Fagles 84). Here, Telemachus is vaguely showing that the gods have given him bad luck and on purpose let his dad leave Ithaca but, in reality the gods didn’t do anything wrong to Telemachus to let him be without a father for so long. This whole time not one of the gods was holding him back, he could have gone and looked for his father at any time but he was too afraid to. Another example of a mortal being selfish and blaming his own issues on the gods is where Telemachus says, “ ‘Why, mother,’ poised Telemachus put in sharply, why deny our devoted bard to entertain us any way the spirit stirs him on? Bards are not to blame- Zeus is to blame. He deals to each and every laborer on this earth whatever doom he pleases.”(Fagles 88-89). Telemachus speaks his mind here. He goes on and on how his mother should not hold the bard liable but blame Zeus. He says this because he believes that Zeus and the gods are in charge of everything so they should be the ones responsible. In conclusion, in my opinion I think mortals just blame the gods because they don’t want to be held accountable for their wrong actions.
ReplyDeleteEssentially, what Zeus is saying is that instead of complaining to the gods about their misfortune, mortal beings should realize that the true stem of their miseries, troubles, and predicaments is a result of their own “reckless ways”, or faulty decisions. Zeus says that mortals should take full responsibility for every action, with the exception of the few things that the gods have control over (weather, natural disasters, etc.). In reality, the gods seem to control much more than just the weather. For example, the entire Trojan War began as a quarrel between the three goddesses Aphrodite, Hera, and Athena. The goddesses debated over which one of them was the most beautiful, causing them to summon the Trojan mortal Paris to decide which one of them would hold the title. Each goddess offers him something, but when Aphrodite is decided to be the most beautiful, she chooses to present Paris with Helen, who she thinks is the most beautiful mortal woman in the world. The Trojan War then begins when Helen is abducted from her kingdom. Athena, upset over losing the rivalry, joins the Greeks in the battle against Paris’ Trojans. If a beauty contest between goddesses was one of the main events that led up to the ten year long Trojan War, where so many soldiers and civilians lost their lives, then I believe it’s safe to say that the god were definitely the stems of some of the mortals’ issues, and that it should be okay for the mortals to blame them for what they cause.
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